Or rather, its retail availability is today. We're on a Microsoft agreement, so we've had it since late August. And boy do I know that. I've been having a trickle of calls and emails ever since the beta released about various ways Win7 isn't working in my environment and whether I have any thoughts about that. Well, I do. As a matter of fact, Technical Services and ATUS both have thoughts on that:
Don't use it yet. We're not ready. Things will break. Don't call us when it does.
But as with any brand new technology there is demand. Couple that with the loose 'corporate controls' inherent in a public Higher Ed institution and we have it coming in anyway. And I get calls when people can't get to stuff.
The main generator of calls is our replacement of the Novell Login Script. I've spoken about how we feel about our login script in the past. Back on July 9, 2004 I had a long article about that. The environment has changed, but it still largely stands. Microsoft doesn't have a built in login script the same way NetWare/OES has had since the 80's, but there are hooks we can leverage. One of my co-workers has built a cunning .VBS file that we're using for our login script, and does the kinds of things we need out of a login script:
Which brings me to XYZ and Win7.
The main incompatibility has to do with the NetWare CIFS stack. Which I describe here. The NetWare CIFS stack doesn't speak NTLMv2, only LM and NTLM. In this instance, it makes it similar to much older Samba versions. This conflicts with Vista and Windows 7, which both default their LAN Manager Authentication Level to "NTLMv2 Responses Only." Which means that out of the box both Vista and Win7 will require changes to talk to our NetWare servers at all. This is fine, so long as they're domained we've set a Group Policy to change that level down to something the NetWare servers speak.
That's not all of it, though. Windows 7 introduced some changes into the SMB/CIFS stack that make talking to NetWare a bit less of a sure thing even with the LAN Man Auth level set right. Perhaps this is SMB2 negotiations getting in the way. I don't know. But for whatever reason, the NetWare CIFS stack and Win7 don't get along as well as the Vista's SMB/CIFS stack did.
The main effect of this is that the user's home-directory will fail to mount a lot more often on Win7 than on Vista. Also, other static drive mappings will fail more often. It is reasons like these that we are not recommending removing the Novell Client and relying on our still in testing Windows Login Script.
That said, I can understand why people are relying on the crufty script rather than the just-works Novell Login Script. Due to how our environment works, The Vista/Win7 Novell Client is dog slow. Annoyingly slow. So annoyingly slow that not getting some drives when you log in is preferable to dealing with it.
This will all change once we move the main file-serving cluster to Windows 2008. At that point, the Windows script should Just Work (tm). At that point, getting rid of the Novell Client will allow a more functional environment. We are not at that point yet.
Don't use it yet. We're not ready. Things will break. Don't call us when it does.
But as with any brand new technology there is demand. Couple that with the loose 'corporate controls' inherent in a public Higher Ed institution and we have it coming in anyway. And I get calls when people can't get to stuff.
The main generator of calls is our replacement of the Novell Login Script. I've spoken about how we feel about our login script in the past. Back on July 9, 2004 I had a long article about that. The environment has changed, but it still largely stands. Microsoft doesn't have a built in login script the same way NetWare/OES has had since the 80's, but there are hooks we can leverage. One of my co-workers has built a cunning .VBS file that we're using for our login script, and does the kinds of things we need out of a login script:
- Run a series of small applications we need to run, which drive the password change notification process among other things.
- Maps drives based on group membership.
- Maps home directories.
- Allows shelling out to other scripts, which allows less privileged people to manage scripts for their own users.
Which brings me to XYZ and Win7.
The main incompatibility has to do with the NetWare CIFS stack. Which I describe here. The NetWare CIFS stack doesn't speak NTLMv2, only LM and NTLM. In this instance, it makes it similar to much older Samba versions. This conflicts with Vista and Windows 7, which both default their LAN Manager Authentication Level to "NTLMv2 Responses Only." Which means that out of the box both Vista and Win7 will require changes to talk to our NetWare servers at all. This is fine, so long as they're domained we've set a Group Policy to change that level down to something the NetWare servers speak.
That's not all of it, though. Windows 7 introduced some changes into the SMB/CIFS stack that make talking to NetWare a bit less of a sure thing even with the LAN Man Auth level set right. Perhaps this is SMB2 negotiations getting in the way. I don't know. But for whatever reason, the NetWare CIFS stack and Win7 don't get along as well as the Vista's SMB/CIFS stack did.
The main effect of this is that the user's home-directory will fail to mount a lot more often on Win7 than on Vista. Also, other static drive mappings will fail more often. It is reasons like these that we are not recommending removing the Novell Client and relying on our still in testing Windows Login Script.
That said, I can understand why people are relying on the crufty script rather than the just-works Novell Login Script. Due to how our environment works, The Vista/Win7 Novell Client is dog slow. Annoyingly slow. So annoyingly slow that not getting some drives when you log in is preferable to dealing with it.
This will all change once we move the main file-serving cluster to Windows 2008. At that point, the Windows script should Just Work (tm). At that point, getting rid of the Novell Client will allow a more functional environment. We are not at that point yet.
It's been about 4 years since I had anything to do with Novell, and like yourself it was in an education sector.I'm trying to strain my brain to remember how we ran things, but as I recall we had drive mappings set up on a group membership level handled from within the Novell Client's integrated login script, with no need to wrangle around with VBS.Is it not a feasible option for what you're doing? What doesn't it do that you require?
this is seriously diggable"the NetWare CIFS stack and Win7 don't get along as well as the Vista's SMB/CIFS stack did."